Tuesday, March 14, 2006

Okay, this is rather random but I'm trying to put together a list of actual issues the Paladin class has. Not so much what we say as the root causes:

1. The seal system is good but badly excuted:

Too many seals either repeat themselves or do nothing. Seal of Justice and it's judgement are prime offenders. Judgement of Justice is rarely used because it doesn't do what we hope it will do. It's supposed to be a PvE snare but acts more like a stake and rope. As long as it's tethered to the Paladin then the bad guy will always be at range. It just keeps someone from out running us. It also has no PvP use. Instead of a useless snare, why not make it a four second silence? SoC is another Seal that has problems with implementation. It's intended to allow us to have two handed burst damage. But it is very unreliable burst damage. Instead of PPMs with it, turn it in to one shot weapon buff. JoC needs to not be tied to stun damage.
Seal of Crusader has it's own issues as well. The attack speed bonus does nothing. The judgement is excellent however. So perhaps in the spirit of us being buff bots, why not let us have a debuff. What if Seal of Crusader had a ppm debuff that lowered resistances by 5 per proc, lasting 1 min and stacking up to five times? Seals of Light and Wisdom are fine.

2. Purge and Counterspell

Two spells that pretty much make us useless. Turning seals into weapon buffs would help. But seperating our healing spells out of holy would also do that. If Paladin spells were nature based rather then Holy based it gives us two schools of magic and keeps us from being locked down any more then any other caster class.

3. Interaction

The controlled DPS arguement comes from this, not the more DPS arguement. The Paladin class is boring to play. The Aura system and blessing systems take up so much of our class skills but are mind numbingly boring. It's the downfall of any support class. The support abilites are such force multipliers that adding to us is game breaking. It's not DS that keeps us down. It's JoW, JoL, BoK, BoW....that is what keeps us from new abilites.

3 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, I followed a link from Coriel's "Blessing of Kings" blog here. I just have a few comments about your suggestions...

I like your idea to turn seals into weapon buffs, but what would be done about Judgements then? Having seals as active self-buffs is the key to the current Judgement system, and changing seals into weapon buffs instead of self-buffs would be a huge alteration to our combat system. How would Judgement be handled then?

Constant purges and counterspell against our heals do make for a large annoyance, and turning some of our skills into nature-based would prevent total spell lockdown, however that would be betraying the Warcraft lore. Paladins in Blizzard's history have never done anything tied to nature, they draw their power from "the light". This is one of the major drawbacks of the paladin class - Blizzard is trying to preserve their conception of the paladin that they have built up through games like Diablo 2, Warcraft 2, Warcraft 3... I think it would take a major major complaint for any paladin skills to be changed to nature.

-Baelor
Paladin on Runetotem server

8:40 AM  
Blogger Lord Vir said...

The seal system is good but badly excuted:

I liked your Seal of the Crusader stacking debuff Idea, I had a similar one. I think the seal system, like you mentioned just doesn't offer the synergy or choices needed in pvp. Further, the lack of control is a problem. I think they should shorten the duration of the seals, according to how powerful they are, and make them a proc on every hit. They should have varying cooldowns to prevent spamming of one powerful seal, and the judgements should mesh with the seals better, for example:

Seal of Command: Does 125% weapon damage as holy damage. 60 second cooldown, 10 second duration.

Judgement of Command: Does 100% weapon damage as holy damage and an additional 215 damage over 20 seconds.

Seal of the Crusader: Grants an extra 200 attack power on the paladins attacks. 15 second cooldown, 10 second duration

Judgement of the Crusader: Causes the enemy to take up to 185 extra holy damage.

Seal of Justice - Stuns attacker for two seconds on your next melee hit. 6 second duration, 20 second cooldown

Judgement of Justice - Does 50 holy damage, and interrupts any spell being cast. In addition, silences caster from casting any spell from that school for 2 seconds.

Seal of Rightousness - Grants 150 holy damage to your melee attacks. 10 second duration, 20 second cooldown

Judgement of Rightousness - Causes 250 damage to the enemy.


Granted my numbers are pretty high, but the cooldowns could work with that if the numbers were messed around. Also we could use a new seal or two, but wouldn't the above at least be a more dynamic system than what we have now?


[quote]2. Purge and Counterspell

Two spells that pretty much make us useless. Turning seals into weapon buffs would help. But seperating our healing spells out of holy would also do that. If Paladin spells were nature based rather then Holy based it gives us two schools of magic and keeps us from being locked down any more then any other caster class.[/quote]

They could turn the offensive spells into Shadow damage, so at least we could cast something. It's not going to happen. At least less mages will be spec'cing improved counterspell after the patch.


[quote]The controlled DPS arguement comes from this, not the more DPS arguement. The Paladin class is boring to play. The Aura system and blessing systems take up so much of our class skills but are mind numbingly boring. [/quote]

They just kinda suck. None of them are directly offensive either. Having an aura that provided a +crit buff would at least give us an excuse for front line play.

[quote]It's the downfall of any support class. The support abilites are such force multipliers that adding to us is game breaking. It's not DS that keeps us down. It's JoW, JoL, BoK, BoW....that is what keeps us from new abilites.[/quote]

If we are going to be in the support role, and seals aren't going to change (which they wont at this point) I'd like to see more short term powerful blessings. Really, when I'm playing support in pvp, I'm either healing, or handing out blessing of sacrifice, blessing of freedom, or blessing of protection. Maybe something like BoF that made the target immune to fear would be nice.

But fear is getting the nerfbat next patch anyway. :D

11:38 AM  
Blogger Teo said...

Just a short something to think upon, one of those rare gems of wisdom I found in the WoW forums.

A seal/judge system is obviously not the most interactive in the world. For most solo play purposes, you could simple refresh JoC on yourself every 30 seconds and still grind relatively quickly (for a paladin).

However, I can see why Blizzard implemented this 'seal and forget' system. I think it was designed to allow you to move to the front line, judge appropriately on the mob, re-seal with something that adds more DPS, and then look after the rest of the party while still contributing. By look after the party, I mean cleansing, spot heals, appropriate blessings and so on. Cleanse and blessings do not reset your swing timer, which is a godsend when you're trying to do two things at once (coming from a druid, where any decursing will reset swing timer). You're plated so you can take a hit or so, you have auras that (marginally) benefit the front line players and if things go pear shaped you can bubble out of trouble.

Obviously, this supporting role didn't really translate well to solo play. With nothing to support except yourself, and with plate, auras and uninteruptable heals, most paladins feel short-changed in solo play. I'm sure most paladins have gone to the bathroom after turning on SoC and auto-attack on a single mob, something that's not quite doable on most other classes.

Anyway, I'm not sure how to change things for the better in terms of interactivity. Obviously I just like hearing (typing) the sound of my own voice :)

9:48 PM  

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